Today in Budget Estimates, Abigail continued to push for funding for the Ageing and Disability Commission, PWDA's Building Access project, minimum accessibility standards for new homes, pet-friendly crisis accommodation, and more.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Turning to a different topic, I was really—I think I can say the word—upset to learn that the Ageing and Disability Commissioner has still not been funded to the level that they have been asking for for a very long time now. Are you aware that the ADC put in a submission for greater funding to allow them to do their work to the department? Did you pass that on to the Treasurer as part of the budget considerations?
Ms JODIE HARRISON (Minister for Women, Minister for Seniors, and Minister for the Prevention of Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault): I am aware that there was a proposal from the Ageing and Disability Commission for increased funding, and I'm aware that it didn't get through Cabinet.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Did it not get through at the department level, though? Did it not get through Cabinet?
Ms JODIE HARRISON: I don't recollect exactly where it didn't get through, but I know that there was a proposal. I do know that there's been some additional funding granted to the Ageing and Disability Commission for this financial year within the DCJ budget.
MICHAEL TIDBALL (Secretary, Department of Communities and Justice): If I can assist, Ms Boyd?
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Please.
MICHAEL TIDBALL: There is core funding of $4.03 million. There is a gap in excess of $2 million. As has happened over the past two years, where that money is not forthcoming through enhancement, the department will fund that gap.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Will that then meet the budget bid, though, or will that just keep things afloat?
MICHAEL TIDBALL: I can't recall what the full ask was. It will certainly, I think, deal with the core needs as well as, as I understand it, specific needs for the neglect project, the research for the DFV victim-survivor experience of the criminal justice system and $200,000 for responding to elder abuse of older women and women with a disability, which are specific projects.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: I understand that budget bid was for $14 million over four years to address the core work plus the OCV scheme and then to provide for some growth.
MICHAEL TIDBALL: It would be more than that. On the figures I have, over three years I think that the total funding required is over $7 million a year.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: So maybe that was $14 million additional that was requested.
MICHAEL TIDBALL: Possibly, yes.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: And of that we didn't get the full amount. How much of that $14 million additional was given then?
MICHAEL TIDBALL: I am happy to check this on notice because I want to be pristinely accurate in what I say. My understanding is the funding that has been available has been continued, and the shortfall would need to come from DCJ. That is the gap or shortfall which, as I said, we've done in the last two years that we will fund.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Is that now the intention, though, to keep doing that top up? I don't understand why Treasury wouldn't fund it to at least its core level.
MICHAEL TIDBALL: I cannot speak to those processes.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: No, you can't.
MICHAEL TIDBALL: I recognise the vital interconnection that the ADC does with so much of the work of DCJ. It does vital work. It does important work. The independence of the commission, obviously, is important. It has a clear statutory mandate, which I completely respect and get. As I am emphasising, the department will commit to funding that gap.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Minister, when this was set up five years ago—I understand there's been growth of around 66 per cent, which is what you would expect. I thought that it was underfunded to begin with, but when you look at the way these things work—once people learn that there is a service that they can contact, you would expect the demand for that service to increase. I know that the previous commissioner, Mr Fitzgerald, talked a lot about the need for a demand-based funding model which, unfortunately, was never accepted by Treasury. Do you think it's appropriate that we continue to underfund the ADC when it's something that we want to be successful and to be growing?
Ms JODIE HARRISON: I certainly want to reiterate the work that the Ageing and Disability Commission does as being really important work. Elder abuse is an issue that there is becoming more and more awareness of, which is partly what that increase in calls are about. It would be lovely to be able to have demand-based funding on all of our services. It's tricky to do that within budgets. The Government will continue to look at the work done by the Ageing and Disability Commissioner and look at whether we can better support it into the future. It is difficult within budgets. The Treasurer has made it clear to not come asking for additional funds, unless there is definitely not the capacity to be able to fund things from within already, with Government
changing priorities.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: It's very difficult when we have services being forced to turn people away. It seems to be, I guess, impinging directly on their statutory functions to be able to perform and do everything that was required. Maybe this is a question for the Treasurer, I guess, as to whether there is any intention to reassess the way that these services are funded.
Ms JODIE HARRISON: That would be a question for the Treasurer.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Can I ask you about the PWDA Building Access project? In the last estimates I asked you about this. You weren't familiar, at the time, with it and the findings about just how inaccessible domestic and family violence services are for people with disability. I think there were zero services that they'd found to be fully accessible, which was pretty extraordinary. I see that you have since met with the PWDA. You met with them in April. What has been done in relation to that building access project and getting funding to allow full accessibility for domestic and family violence services?
Ms JODIE HARRISON: I think that funding actually sits within Minister Jackson's portfolio, but I'm happy to take that on notice.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: That would be very useful, thank you.
Ms JODIE HARRISON: Within the design specifications, accessibility is a really important part of Core and Cluster. If I recall correctly, at least one of each of the units in each Core and Cluster unit is required to be fully accessible—ideally all, but there is a requirement for at least one to be fully accessible.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: This is something I keep asking every Minister about, but it's definitely relevant within your portfolios: The issue of why New South Wales is one of only two States not to sign up to the National Construction Code minimum accessibility standards for new builds. This is obviously not just an issue for people with mobility issues but anyone who wants to age in place. It's a big concern for older people. Have you been advocating in Cabinet to get New South Wales to finally adopt those standards?
Ms JODIE HARRISON: Certainly there have been discussions with Minister Chanthivong about that. I know that the Ministerial Advisory Council on Ageing has met with him as well to advocate along those lines. So, yes, there is certainly advocacy occurring.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: You acknowledge that that lack of accessibility of our housing stock is impacting particularly on women with mobility needs trying to flee domestic and family violence relationships?
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Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Just a few additional things from me, Minister. The response from the Government to the disability royal commission recommendations—did you have direct input into that?
Ms JODIE HARRISON: The recommendations as they related to domestic and family services, yes.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: The New South Wales Government responded to recommendation 8.24, which was in relation to a disability inclusive definition of family and domestic violence, with the statement "subject to further consideration". What is that further consideration? This is the definition that at the moment only applies to intimate—well, not quite. It's broader than that. I don't have it in front of me, sorry. Effectively, it's connected to this issue that we had with coercive control being related only to intimate relationship and not carers and everybody else. When it was stated that that was under consideration, what's the process for that?
ANNE CAMPBELL: I can answer that.
Ms JODIE HARRISON: I'll ask Ms Campbell.
ANNE CAMPBELL (Deputy Secretary, Strategy, Policy and Commissioning, Department of Communities and Justice): That particular action, from memory, was for both the Commonwealth and State to respond to that particular recommendation. There's engagement at the moment with States and Territories and the Commonwealth to work through that particular recommendation.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: So the Victorian Government accepted that recommendation and committed to undertaking detailed analysis in relation to it, but we just said, "subject to further consideration"?
ANNE CAMPBELL: And analysis, of course, as well.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: We will be doing that analysis, then?
ANNE CAMPBELL: We will be looking at it, yes.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: When will that be done by?
ANNE CAMPBELL: I'd need to take that on notice.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: I'm going to ask a couple of questions in relation to pet-friendly accommodation. We've talked about the additional 2,900 beds for refuges. What percentage of that accommodation will be pet-friendly and enable women to bring their dog or their cat with them?
Ms JODIE HARRISON: It's my understanding that the design specification brief required there to be the capacity for all of them to be pet friendly. Obviously, there may be some circumstances where different families' pets don't get on. That's likely to be an issue, potentially, in the future. That will be something that will need to be worked through in each individual refuge—exactly what that looks like.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Animal-inclusive design is an important part of the picture. Is there any additional funding to be provided to effectively support families who are bringing their animals with them? Their animals may require additional support and funding to make that work.
Ms JODIE HARRISON: I might ask Ms Campbell about the breakdown of the capital versus operational funding for Core and Cluster.
ANNE CAMPBELL: There would be brokerage money that's available in the service support. That would be dependent on each woman's and child's circumstances. Obviously, if there was an issue in terms of specific pet care et cetera, that would be factored into the case plan for that particular family.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Minister, are you aware of where in the State, how many and where the gaps are when it comes to people being able to find a safe refuge for their animal if they are forced to flee somewhere where they can't take their animal with them? In Victoria they have a great program, I think as part of their RSPCA funding, where they've got dedicated spots—various pounds and things—for people with domestic and family violence circumstances that they're fleeing. Do you have visibility over where the gaps are in New South Wales and what needs to be done?
Ms JODIE HARRISON: I personally do not. We're busy trying to fill in gaps of where refuges are with the program. I know the RSPCA does some really great work in relation to supporting victim-survivors in relation to keeping their pets and being able to financially support them when there is a crisis. I'm not quite sure at the moment whether we have detail of any gaps of pet-friendly accommodation, unless that can be answered—
ANNE CAMPBELL: No, I'll take that on notice. I might be able to come back to you this afternoon.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: That would be good. It reminds me, coming back to that discussion we were having before about the NCC minimum accessibility standards and how that impacts on women fleeing domestic and family violence—it's not just the refuges. If you're in a situation where you've decided to leave but the rental market is as it is and you can't actually find a place that is pet-friendly or, in the case of what I was talking about before, accessible for people with disability, that's where your role comes in to ensure that there is more accommodation of that kind. When it comes to the NCC standards, there's a very clear link with domestic and family violence, and it's something that the Older Women's Network has been making a lot of good noise about
as well. Will you be advocating to your colleagues that we accept that minimum accessibility standard as an urgent matter?
Ms JODIE HARRISON: Certainly as far as the new builds that we're undertaking, my understanding of the work that has been led by the Minister for Housing, and Minister for Homelessness is that all of the new builds—
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: For social housing.
Ms JODIE HARRISON: —for social housing—
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Yes, but not for the market as a whole. Every other State and Territory except for Western Australia and New South Wales has mandated it for everybody. For some reason, we seem unable to do that in New South Wales. I am yet to get a clear answer or any justification as to why that would be the case. But given how important it is for seniors, for people with disability, for people fleeing domestic and family violence, it just seems like a no-brainer to me. And yet, we've got this hold-up. Will you be advocating for that standard to be implemented urgently?
Ms JODIE HARRISON: I'll continue to have the conversations that I've been having in relation to particularly the silver standards.
Read the full transcript here.
11 September 2024