Today in a Budget Estimates hearing, Abigail confronted the Racing Minister about Labor's appalling lack of action in response to damning corruption and cruelty allegations from the Brittain report about greyhound racing in NSW. Read the exchange below.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: To all the world it looks like there were some very inconvenient allegations made and the media were finally paying attention again to the dangers of greyhound racing, and this inquiry just sweeps things under the carpet. Do you take responsibility for the terms of reference of that inquiry?

Mr DAVID HARRIS (Minister for Gaming and Racing): Yes, I was involved in approving the terms of reference. They were put together by the department.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: By putting the sole purpose of being to keep a sustainable, whatever it was, viable industry, why did you preclude an inquiry that would come back saying, "This industry is incapable of reform"?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Because the Government had made a decision that greyhound racing would continue in New South Wales.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Exactly, and that's where your responsibility comes in, Minister, because you're sitting there—

Mr DAVID HARRIS: To make it as safe as I possibly can.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: You are sitting there as the Minister responsible for all of these greyhounds dying.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: That's outrageous.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: No, it's not.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Seriously, if I was doing nothing at all, then I would accept that, but we're doing a whole range of things. We're not accepting the status quo; we're working to improve things. That's what we're doing. That's the truth.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: By not actually changing the regulations.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: You can misrepresent that any way you like.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: I wish I was misrepresenting it.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: But this is an industry that's not illegal in New South Wales and my job is to make it as safe as possible.

The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK (Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party): It's a great industry.

The CHAIR: Order!

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: But your job could be to reform the industry.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Your agenda is to shut it down; our agenda is to make it as safe as possible.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: I see that.

The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: Our agenda is to keep it going—

The CHAIR: Order! Mr Borsak, order!

The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: —and growing it.

The CHAIR: Order!

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: On that basis, given these horrible, horrible circumstances in which these dogs have died, given all of the allegations around the inappropriate going and doing audits that aren't audits and all the rest of it, will you put a pause on the Aussie Mates in the States program until that review comes back?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: My understanding is it is paused. It hasn't started up again, has it?

TAREK BARAKAT (Deputy Secretary Hospitality and Racing): It has recommenced.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: It has recommenced.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Because of Qantas, not because of you, Minister.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: It must have been just recent.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Oh, it has recommenced?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Yes, it has recommenced.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Why hasn't it stopped, Minister?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: The transport of animals is the responsibility of the carrier and the company that is employed, which is Hanrob, to do it, so as long as they're meeting safety standards—

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: But this is within your power.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Are you saying we should stop transport of all animals on aircrafts?

The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: Actually, that's what they'd say, yes. That's exactly what they'd say.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: No, I'm talking about the transport of greyhounds—traumatised greyhounds that have been found by vets not to be fit to fly.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: I'm not a greyhound psychologist.

There are standards for the transport of animals on aircraft, and as long as that's adhered to, then that's the rules. That is what happened.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: There seems to be a misunderstanding, Minister. When I first came to see you about greyhounds last year, there was a lot of talk about why greyhounds should be treated differently to different dogs. I think I was at pains to explain to you then that these are different animals because of the experiences they have had in an industry that has used them for profit, and that puts them at a higher risk. When we're talking about greyhounds being transported overseas, there are different factors at play, aren't there? I hope that you understand that now. If you say that you are here to try and keep this a safe industry, what will you do to stop these greyhounds dying by being sent overseas?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: We are having an inquiry and we will react to the recommendations of the inquiry.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: But right now. If another dog dies tomorrow, you have no responsibility?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: If they're adhering to the current standards, that's the current standards.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: The standards that you put in place.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: If we need to change those standards, that will be the recommendation that we get.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Right, but in the meantime—

Mr DAVID HARRIS: You want me to go out before the inquiry and make a whole lot of changes.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: On the basis of this, of course I do.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Well, we're not doing that. We've called an inquiry to get recommendations and we will follow the recommendations.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Right. We lock kids up at the drop of a hat. We do all sorts of reforms at the drop of a hat if we get told to by Ray Hadley, but when it comes to dogs dying, we're just fine. It's alright because we want this industry to continue.

The Hon. GREG DONNELLY (NSW Labor Party): Is that a question or a lecture?

The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: It's a lecture.

The CHAIR: Order!

The Hon. ROBERT BORSAK: It's a do-gooder's lecture.

The CHAIR: Order!

Mr DAVID HARRIS: We follow process. My understanding is these dogs undergo retraining before they're transported.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: That's not what the Wyee report said, did it?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Your accusation that they're not ready for travel, they're not approved for travel until they're ticked off—

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Did you read the Wyee report?

The Hon. GREG DONNELLY: Point of order—

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Yes, but the Wyee—

The CHAIR: Order! Mr Donnelly on a point of order.

The Hon. GREG DONNELLY: The point of order is the member can't help herself. She keeps talking over the honourable Minister.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: To the point of order—

The Hon. GREG DONNELLY: I'm not finished yet.

The CHAIR: The honourable member has not concluded making his point of order.

The Hon. GREG DONNELLY: It's a follow-up to the point of order taken by my honourable colleague. Talking over the Minister providing an answer is completely out of order. We know how this goes and I think we should be more respectful of the Minister to be able to answer the question. You might not like the answer, but we should allow the Minister to answer the question.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: To the point of order: I'm quite happy for that point of order to be raised in a respectful manner. That was raised in a very offensive manner, and I would ask the member to reflect on that, but I don't object to the point of order.

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Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Going back to greyhounds, you ordered an inquiry into the concerning allegations coming out of the Wyee rehoming facility. Did you receive that inquiry report back on time?

Mr DAVID HARRIS (Minister for Gaming and Racing): I did.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: It's pretty shocking reading, wasn't it, Minister?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: GWIC carried out the report. They made some recommendations. We've now referred that to Ms Drake to take into her investigations.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Did it concern you that there are only a handful—I think maybe as few as three—staff members willing to talk to GWIC as part of that inquiry?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: We certainly were. My memory is that there was about 27 staff—I may be one or two out there—and that seven agreed to talk to the investigator, but only four did.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: And they said they were scared, didn't they, Minister, scared of repercussions from Greyhound Racing NSW, for speaking out about what they'd seen?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: I'm not sure what their reasons were.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Will you be making that report public?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: We've given it to Ms Drake. We'll wait for her to have a look at the recommendations that GWIC made and then respond fully to that inquiry.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Why won't you make that report public? And why were you so reticent to make the Brittan report public?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Who? Which report?

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: The Alex Brittan report—the chief vet.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: The Brittan report—there were some legal issues around who owned the report. I have found, in this job, I speak to lawyers a lot, and we have to act on advice with these different things. We read the report. It's been referred to Ms Drake. That's why we called the inquiry: so that there would be an independent review into these things.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: The Wyee report backed up a lot of what the chief vet was saying, particularly in relation to the export program, this Aussie Mates in the States program, and how dangerous this was for greyhounds, didn't it, Minister?

Are you concerned about the Aussie Mates in the States program, given the revelations in the Brittan report, about the dogs dying, particularly that one that was not emotionally fit to fly and had actually gulped so much air into itself that it died, in a most horrific way, on a 15-hour flight to the US? Does that concern you, Minister?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: The death of any animal concerns me, but I think we have to be a little bit realistic. Animals are transported by plane all the time. I would imagine, across the board, there would be adverse things happen—

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: But not normally had a traumatic life in racing beforehand.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: We don't know what sort of life they had before, so I can't comment on that.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Are you aware that the so-called audit that was done by GWIC in relation to that program involved two people from GWIC going across to the US and it was paid for Greyhound Racing NSW, flights and accommodation? Do you think that's appropriate?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: I'm not right across that.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Do you think it's appropriate that a vet wasn't sent for that audit?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: I wasn't involved with it, so I can't comment on how the decision-making took place.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Does it concern you that one of people who had their flights and accommodation paid for by Greyhound Racing NSW to do that audit of whether or not the program was acceptable then took a job with Greyhound Racing NSW just a couple of weeks later?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: Ms Drake is doing an inquiry.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: I bet she is. When we look at that inquiry, it says the purpose is: ... to ensure a viable and sustainable greyhound racing industry in NSW with the highest standards of integrity and animal welfare. Isn't that an oxymoron?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: No, not at all. There are a lot of activities undertaken in society that have an element of danger to them.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Normally for people, not innocent animals.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: It doesn't mean you can't properly regulate them. The Government's made a clear policy decision that greyhound racing will continue. My job is to make it as safe as I possibly can and have high levels of integrity, and that's what we're doing.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: Is there a reason why GWIC was left out of the terms of reference—specifically, whether or not GWIC needed different or stronger enforcement powers in order to bring this industry under control? Or is that seen to be something that would damage the viability and sustainably, economically, of the industry?

Mr DAVID HARRIS: No, I know the decision was made because in the chief vet's report there were allegations relating to GWIC, so it was inappropriate that they be part of that inquiry.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: It's probably inappropriate for GWIC to be inquiring into itself, then.

Mr DAVID HARRIS: So the department is undertaking that investigation. I just want to be clear about this, because there's been some statements made that aren't 100 per cent right and may mislead people. We used the vacant GWIC commissioner position to appoint Ms Drake. She is independent. She's had no relationship with GWIC prior to this, but we thought it important that the person doing the investigation had the powers of GWIC.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: But be a public official—

Mr DAVID HARRIS: That's why we've taken this course.

Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: —and have a public servant's duty to the Government.

Read the full transcript in Hansard here.

6 September 2024