Today, as Chair of a Budget Estimates hearing, Abigail challenged the Minister for Education regarding a directive from the Department of Education that has enforced the silencing of discussions about the genocide in Gaza within NSW schools. As a result, the Department has agreed to review the policy.
The CHAIR (Abigail Boyd): Deputy Premier, I wanted to ask you about the department resource that was sent out called Supporting the school community during the current conflict in the Middle East. Are you aware of the discriminatory way that has been put into practice in some schools?
Ms PRUE CAR (Minister for Education): I don't know the exact resource to which you are referring, Ms Boyd, to be fair. I am not sure if Mr Dizdar knows or I can take it on notice.
The CHAIR: This is one I asked a question on notice about in July. This is a resource that was put out by the department, Supporting the school community during the current conflict in the Middle East. It is instructing principals and schools to be neutral when it comes to the conflict in the Middle East. I have heard from many students who have told me that the result of this have been, for example, that Palestinian students have not been able to wear their keffiyeh at school, they haven't been able to have a Palestinian flag on their bag, and when they have sat up all night watching the conflict and grieving for family and friends, when they go to school they are not allowed to talk about the fact that they are Palestinian. This has all been brought home to this policy that was issued by the department. Are you aware of that? How does this occur?
Ms PRUE CAR: This is obviously very difficult terrain for principals and teachers to manage at this current point. I would say that I know that they are managing this in a context where we have students and staff who are impacted by this conflict in many different ways. They might be—and I loathe to use this word—on different sides of the conflict. Everyone, regardless of whether you are a student or staff member or family member in the public school system, has a right to feel safe and belong in the public school system. I am not aware of the particular issues that have come from that policy, but let me take that away. Our intention to ensure that public schools are neutral and that everyone can belong is one we take very seriously. I take it very seriously personally, as Minister. As public schools, we open our doors to absolutely everyone.
The CHAIR: That's right.
Ms PRUE CAR: That means everyone needs to feel like they can belong. But let me take that on notice personally about that particular policy. But that is the intent of everything we do. That is the intent.
The CHAIR: The conflict in the Middle East is not a football match. It's not about teams and sides.
Ms PRUE CAR: I know and I didn't want to use that word, but I did not know how else to describe it.
The CHAIR: I know that isn't what you were saying. But the idea that all conversation about the nuances and the complexities in region have been silenced has caused a real issue for many, many students and teachers. Do you think in hindsight the reaction from the New South Wales Government and in particular the Department of Education was hasty?
Ms PRUE CAR: Look, I really, really don't want to see a system or situation where any student or staff member feels that way in a public school or in the system. Everything we do is aimed at public schools being a neutral place. For everyone—and I know this will be the case—that you may have spoken to, Ms Boyd, who feels maybe uncomfortable or that it could be done better, I know there are thousands of classrooms where teachers are navigating this very difficult terrain expertly every day. There is nuance in this, as there is nuance in so many other things that kids come to school with. Kids aren't coming to school in a vacuum; they are coming from home and what they see on the TV, as you said. They are talking to their teacher, who is often the most-trusted adult outside of their parents or even in their life. They are communicating with their teacher, principal or person at school, who have to navigate that terrain.
The CHAIR: That's right.
Ms PRUE CAR: It is being done in schools anyway and, where people are uncomfortable, we'll take that away.
The CHAIR: Because what teachers are telling me is that ordinarily they are left to their own devices to use their own judgement in terms of having those discussions with their students. But, because of this directive from the department, I've heard of teachers being basically disciplined for talking about these issues in their classes. Are you aware of how many teachers have been disciplined?
Ms PRUE CAR: I have to take that particular concern that you've raised on advisement from the department because that's a particular set of circumstances if teachers are being disciplined. Mr Dizdar would probably have an update on how we're managing that with staff.
MURAT DIZDAR (Secretary of the NSW Department of Education): I think it's a good topic you talk to, Ms Boyd. I do want to thank our school communities who have been working through distressing and difficult times around this, because we're not cut off from global events. But what I can tell you, in a series of communication we did put out—and maybe your line of questioning is a good reminder to us that we should reinforce this with the ongoing nature of the conflict. We did put out material in a November communication around our school leaders, teachers and support staff—how they can best address student wellbeing and address this difficult topic in facilitating communication with families. So you are spot on. We had lots of feedback to say, "Look, I'm a geography teacher. I'm a science teacher. But these are the kids in front of me. I want advice and help about how to help support kids in this situation."
The CHAIR: Advice and help is very different to a directive and to something that then has resulted in principals disciplining teachers for just having a discussion. Do you think, in hindsight—I know that things got politically heated in November. But, now that we are as far down the track as we are and we can see the devastation that's occurring—we've heard from Jewish students, from Palestinian students. They want to have proper discussions about these issues. This directive of having to treat something as being neutral when it is clearly
anything but is upsetting for students and teachers. In hindsight, do you think it was a mistake to issue this guideline?
MURAT DIZDAR: I don't quite concur around "mistake". In speaking with the range of stakeholders in my role and in speaking with the principals' association and the Teachers Federation and in the vast visits to schools across the State, we've done our best to communicate and support our people. Since 1848 the might of public education has been that we do have to be neutral, that we do have to be thoughtful, that we do have to be balanced.
The CHAIR: Well, we're not neutral on murder. We're not neutral on most crimes. Why would we be neutral on war?
MURAT DIZDAR: These are very difficult global events which have impact on our school communities and we're going to continue to give guidance around that and support around that. I think your line of questioning is fair because it was November advice. It might be timely again—
The CHAIR: It's still having a really severe impact on a lot of students and teachers. Deputy Premier, would you look into—I did ask this on notice and I didn't get an answer—how many people have actually been disciplined and how many children have been suspended or expelled because of a breach of this policy?
Ms PRUE CAR: Let me take that on notice. But I will note the secretary just made some comments about how maybe it's timely to look at this. I just want to make it clear again: Everything comes from the standpoint of ensuring that our public schools are neutral places.
The CHAIR: But neutral doesn't mean ignoring that a war is occurring.
Ms PRUE CAR: No, and you're—definitely not from us. You're not hearing anything that is anything other than just trying to protect the wellbeing of our staff and students.
27 August 2024