Today in Budget Estimates, Abigail continued to press the NSW Treasurer on committing to clear budget line items for tracking domestic and family violence funding.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: I was quite disappointed with some of the responses to some of the supplementary questions and questions taken on notice in the last budget statements. I assume you sign off on them.
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY (NSW Treasurer): I do. I'm sorry to have disappointed you.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: I was quite disappointed.
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: I'm not sure I can promise to do any better, but I will try.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: One of the issues that you and I both spoke about when you were in opposition was in relation to having a more transparent budget document. I appreciate that you've inherited quite a scrambled mess of a government to try to wrap our heads around. However, one of the things that the domestic and family violence sector have been calling for, for a long time, is in relation to having a very specific line item in which we can see exactly how much is being spent on programs, rather than having to ask every time in estimates about exactly what you're funding where. I asked about this in a supplementary question. I said, "Will you commit to clearly stated budget line items to ensure spending on domestic and family violence prevention and response in New South Wales can be tracked?" The answer I got back was, "The financial aggregates in the budget are prepared each year in accordance with the
Uniform Presentation Framework and the Australian Accounting Standards."
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: It's a great answer.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: It's obviously not what I was asking. I wasn't asking, "Are you in compliance with applicable accounting standards?" Obviously, you are. I was asking if you would provide transparency over domestic and family violence funding.
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: Firstly, Ms Boyd, the idea that we should take for granted that governments comply with accounting standards—as you and I have learned—is not something that we should necessarily assume.
The second point—and this is a far more serious point—is that the uniform financial presentation is designed to ensure that State budgets, firstly, are comparable to each other and, secondly, are prescribed as a standard by the ABS. We all have to follow it. The second point about budget papers, per se, is that they have to reflect appropriations, which means that—as you are well aware, particularly when it comes to the intervention of family and domestic violence—there is a series of interventions that are undertaken by separate appropriations. That is why you can't necessarily identify by a program level; it is a component of a broader appropriation. In this particular case, obviously, it's the Department of Family and Community Services, the health department and education department—lots of things. That's in Budget Paper No. 01. But you'll also recall that you're talking about the supplementary questions. But you also asked me about the broader budget papers and I made the point that part of the reason we engaged in reform of Budget Paper No. 02 and the incorporation of a wellbeing framework was to pick up on the valid point you are making, which is that we can make information more accessible.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: But there are particular line items, for example, the funding of frontline workers in domestic and family violence services, which would be easy to actually specify and state. That would be really helpful.
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: Yes, but you have to reconcile with the legal requirement to publish it in appropriation form. So if you pick up, for example—
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: You could provide that information as part of the supplementary papers. It's a choice, isn't it, as to how you actually specify a whole bunch of this information when certain things are drawn out as being, "Look, we're doing this; we're doing that"? Why not that? Why not, "This is how much we are spending"?
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: To be fair, in this particular budget, I don't think the Government hid the fact that we have made the biggest single increase in emergency and other support for domestic and family violence.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: I would not be going down this track, Treasurer, when we are still at two-thirds of what they have in Victoria.
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: I have to. To be fair, Victoria started this process back in 2014. We didn't. We weren't in at that time. In my first two budgets I have substantially—not me, but the Government, in partnership with the sector, who we deeply respect—increased it. I take your point about the fact that in particular we do want to make information more accessible and easily understandable, which is why the Finance Minister is leading the work around the reform of Budget Paper No. 02, which is the wellbeing framework. We look forward to working with you and others in that process.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: So two things out of that. The first one is this answer to my supplementary question was not an answer, was it?
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: To be fair—
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: No.
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: To be fair, I always made the point that supplementary questions are an addition to the evidence that I gave in the committee. I think its reasonable that you read the supplementary in accordance—
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: It is very clear: Will you commit? The answer is, "We prepare in accordance with"—you know as well as I do that is not an answer.
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: It's an answer. You just don't like the answer. You disagree with the position.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: It is an answer to a completely different question, which would have been, "Do you prepare in accordance with accounting standards?" You would have said, "Yes, we do." That's not the question. The question asked was, "Will you commit to a clearly stated budget line item in relation to domestic and family violence spend?" You've not answered that question. You've just answered a completely different one.
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: I will commit to ensuring that the budget papers comply with the legal requirements and other presentational requirements.
Ms ABIGAIL BOYD: That's still not what was asked.
The Hon. DANIEL MOOKHEY: And I will commit to seeing what further information we can provide in our budget papers.
29 August 2024